Inauthenticity in videos

damas · 2025-10-13T15:35:18+00:00

I am so tired of these videos that sometimes pop up in my recommended feed. I don't know what it is exactly about them, but I've grown disdain towards them....

Doc

I was thinking of the original topic again. I think so many videos seem inauthentic now because the production quality has gotten really high, and they are scripted. This makes it feel more like a show than what YouTube originally was with people turning on a camera and speaking what came to mind. The people making videos still try to capture that old feeling, but it’s impossible so there is a dissonance between what you are seeing, and what you are feeling.

Ross_R
That makes everything make more sense. I still don’t truly understand some of the weird saying they have, such as you need seven years experience to properly cut a fish, and five years experience to properly heat the coals to cook it. I guess it’s cultural

I speak for the cubes

Doc I still don’t truly understand some of the weird saying they have, such as you need seven years experience to properly cut a fish, and five years experience to properly heat the coals to cook it. I guess it’s cultural

I've had the great displeasure of dealing with swiss people a lot and this is exactly the same sort of stuff they do, so the cynic in me will confidently say :
This has nothing to do with culture, it's just a very convenient way to keep people at the bottom of the ladder as long as possible. Or rather, it has to do with labour culture and not a more grand cultural appreciation for quality and perfectionism as both nations absolutely love to claim. Both have very hierarchical, conformist work culture and that matters a lot more in these situations than savviness or appreciation for crafts.
Hey, we can't pay you more or fast track you to a proper position, you haven't yet spent 5 years cleaning a sharpening stone so clearly you are not yet ready to handle a proper tool now shoo, cheap labour, shoo.
I've personally known plenty of folks who spent ten or more years at entry-level positions in swiss factories and had no progression in sight, all while cutting corners in places that won't be seen by the end customer that way you can get away with it. So when I hear the exact same narratives and grand claims about Japan, once again the cynic in me recognizes a pattern and doesn't buy it in the slightest.

Reveriemoe

Doc
The disconnect also makes me think of JCS (who I admit I've not watched, but know to be successful), and their 'academically dispassionate' style of narration and editing. To that extent, they probably go further for that academic tone than lots of actual TV documentaries, which will have their narrator physically present. But this style is perhaps uncharacteristic of what most YTers are like, although, I think that's in some sense a good thing (and an exception to the rule). In the past 10 years or so, there has definitely been a shift towards academic and generally serious subjects on the platform, but without an appropriate shift in attitude. So you'll get videos where someone wants to talk about how Sailor Moon is imperialist or whatever, but without the academic rigour that one would expect from someone who's trying to make a serious point.

Doc

I speak for the cubes This has nothing to do with culture, it's just a very convenient way to keep people at the bottom of the ladder as long as possible.

I hadn't considered this angle. I know Japan and other Asian countries do have a lot of work culture that doesn't like you being independent, or going against the boss. This would be a perfect way to keep up that part of work.

Reveriemoe In the past 10 years or so, there has definitely been a shift towards academic and generally serious subjects on the platform, but without an appropriate shift in attitude. So you'll get videos where someone wants to talk about how Sailor Moon is imperialist or whatever, but without the academic rigour that one would expect from someone who's trying to make a serious point.

This is an incredible way of articulating part of the problem. I hadn't considered it, but it rings very true. There are channels that do well by talking about murder and other crimes while putting on make up. They also censor themselves a ton, which I have found disrespectful. If you can't properly talk about a crime, you should find a different thing to speak about.

I speak for the cubes

Doc If you can't properly talk about a crime, you should find a different thing to speak about
If we're talking about youtube, then it's because they don't want their videos to be hidden or demonetized or what have you. The filters for it are crap, everything is automated, appeals don't work so it's easier to sugarcoat stuff or talk in weird roundabout language and avoid certain specific topics.
Unless you're a musician signed to a major label, then you can be as violent and sexual as you want.
What a shit platform.

Doc

I speak for the cubes
That's why when someone doesn't censor themselves I do what I can to help them, whether it be giving them money or promoting their channel. The censorship is crap and I am waiting for the day that a better platform comes up.

Johnny

Ross_R So don't say they don't think about production like the rest of the world.

We all know how capitalism works. Capitalism rewards quality up front, then takes it away.

I'm saying that if you control for the system that everyone has to follow, there is a significant difference.

[unknown] I just want to explain that I'm not necessarily saying that the Japanese are doing this for the sake of quality. Rather, quality is what their culture revolves around. It's either some sort of cultural code (a la Clotaire Rapaille), or it's their natural temperament, or both.

I think what you said about their guild mentality is interesting. But I'm not sure which factor is the strongest: lack of movement, lack of resources, or suppression of mobility. It's probably all three working together to produce an admirer of perfection.

Ross_R

Johnny We all know how capitalism works. Capitalism rewards quality up front, then takes it away.

Capitalism definitely doesn't work like that.

Johnny ...quality is what their culture revolves around... ...not sure which factor is the strongest: lack of movement, lack of resources, or suppression of mobility. It's probably all three working together to produce an admirer of perfection.

Holy Christ, mate. If you like Japan so much, watch some old japanese movies. Something like Onibaba, or Kurosawa's movies. I Live In Fear, or something.
In post-WWII Japan, when warlords and their centuries-old rule over japanese mind finally got crashed, when japanese finally saw what the outside world was like, even japanese themselves got horrified of what their culture was. Perfection and quality was the last thing that concerned anyone there. Their culture revolved around obedience and warfare.
And even though I can imagine how lack of resources can attribute to perfectionism... in a very roundabout way, about which I'd rather argue too, but anyway, how can possibly lack of movement and suppression of mobility attribute to that? How the fuck does it work in your head?

Johnny

Ross_R Capitalism definitely doesn't work like that.

You gonna explain why?

Ross_R Perfection and quality was the last thing that concerned anyone there. Their culture revolved around obedience and warfare.

I don't think you've spent enough time watching them. Even in situations where they're working independently, or not at the behest of a customer, they have tireless dogmatism.

Ross_R how can possibly lack of movement and suppression of mobility attribute to that? How the fuck does it work in your head?

If you're stuck on an island or between several mountains, you "explore" by turning inward. You reimagine the mundane, you become fascinated with details. And you try to revise what is available until it is perfect.

Ross_R

Johnny You gonna explain why?

I actually have to?
Well, because budget is a word. Because there are always limits. There's never "do the best thing possible, with the best materials ever". There's "make it work within the following limits". No, we cannot afford plastics of this grade. We cannot afford this type of joints either. So what if it is more reliable? Make it simpler.
But alright, every now and then there happens a good product. But you know what is also a thing in capitalism? Pretty much the cornerstone of it, actually? Marketing. PR, baby!
Even the product of the best quality can be overshadowed by a product with a better marketing campaign. If there's anything capitalism rewards up front, it's marketing, and marketing only.
Please, don't tell me to provide examples on that. Just... look around.
You know how they say in the army: never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. Yes, that's how capitalism works. Not even the army gets the best quality, it gets whatever works for the lowest possible amount of cheddar. And the regular consumer will only get quality in case it was somehow profitable to put the word "quality" into the budgets of the current project.

Johnny tireless dogmatism.

Which doesn't equal perfectionalism anyhow.

Johnny If you're stuck on an island or between several mountains, you "explore" by turning inward. You reimagine the mundane, you become fascinated with details. And you try to revise what is available until it is perfect.

Sure. By that logic, every basement populated by hickicomori or whatever their name is should be a small isle of perfection made reality. However, it is usually a trash pile full of porn magazines and empty pizza cartons.
There's a modicum of inner exploration, I'll give you that. But it oh-so-seldom leads to perfection of any kind. Definitely not on national level. That's why people like Grigori Perelman are an exception rather than a rule.

Johnny

Ross_R I actually have to?

If someone got the answer wrong, it doesn't help to say "This is wrong."

Ross_R Well, because budget is a word. Because there are always limits. There's never "do the best thing possible, with the best materials ever". There's "make it work within the following limits". No, we cannot afford plastics of this grade. We cannot afford this type of joints either. Make it simpler.

Did you really think that I didn't account for that?

You're getting confused by the word 'perfect.' Perfect means that one is satisfied with no objections. When materials aren't available, the standards change. Japanese take those standards to their final conclusion; Westerners have a high time preference, and aren't too particular about the end result.

And actually, you're wrong that Japanese use cheap materials. Japanese go out of their way to use fine materials, which often eats into the final cost. They tend to sell products with higher quality materials at an affordable price. They also work a lot slower, which is part of the reason why their hours are so long.

You're also silly because ALL of our decisions intend to minimize the total average amount of work. Even the way that we absorb information is economical: we take many small samples and few long ones.

The fact that we talk about perfectionism AT ALL means that we've already taken least effort into account.

The distinction is what each system is trying to achieve. Capitalism is a system that perfects towards profit; perfectionism is a system that perfects towards quality. Some forms of capitalism are more perfectionistic than others.

Ross_R Sure. By that logic, every basement populated by hickicomori or whatever their name is should be a small isle of perfection made reality. However, it is usually a trash pile full of porn magazines and empty pizza cartons.

You're equating a maladaptive behavior with a society. Yeah, hikikomoris are mentally ill people who live in squalor.

But even your point is wrong. A hikikomori cannot figure out how to organize himself. And actually, the parts of his life that he is able to control do in fact improve over time. The hikikomori may have a sophisticated relationship with his pornography, figuring out the most economical means of storing and accessing material.

A perfected routine is a routine that comes from a lengthy process of evolution. Confined spaces do not AUTOMATICALLY result in a high quality of life. But they do over time. It's just that a hikikomori does not have a culture that evolves into basements, and figures out the healthiest way of living in such an environment.

Ross_R

Johnny Perfect means that one is satisfied with no objections.

Perfect means something completely free from faults or defects. The way you put it, I can make a heap of trash and call it perfect, and it will be perfect, since I will have no objections to that.

Johnny And actually, you're wrong that Japanese use cheap materials. Japanese go out of their way to use fine materials

Where did I say that japanese use cheap materials? Is it about that post way above when I said they moved to cheap plastics? Well, yeah, their plastics are cheap. Nothing special about them, and you won't convince me otherwise. Read below.
To make it clear: in the sum of it, japanese do not use any materials that are anyhow more fine or less fine than anywhere else in the world. Once again: they do it the way anyone else does it, cutting where it can be cut, going good where it can be done good within given budget. Ever heard of japanese houses? Nothing but drywall and paper, because it is economically viable. Japanese cars? Good materials where they gotta be good, bad materials where they can be bad. Example: Toyota MR-S from the middle of the 90's. Good engine, reliable suspension. Everything that gotta last under pressure is built to last under pressure. But God forbid you to crash it, because the body is made in the cheapest way possible. I know a guy who crashed at just 40 km/h or so, and it got totaled. Totaled under 40 km/h! I crashed my 90's Ford Focus at about the same angle at 110 km/h, and I was able to repair it. But MR-S' body was made of the cheapest, thinnest plastic possible. It was a coffin on wheels. Very reliable coffin on wheels. Go figure.
One more time: it's the same thing everywhere. Corpos use cheap parts whenever they can to cut costs, and japanese corpos are no different.

Johnny Japanese take those standards to their final conclusion

I guess that's why after WWII the phrase "Made in Japan" pretty much was synonymous to the word "garbage". Those standarts definitely were taken to the final conclusion.
You know what's funny? Japan is actually laughably bad at a thing that doesn't even need any kind of resources but human mind: software. Just punch into your search engine something along the lines of "why japanese software is so bad" and have some free comedy.

Johnny Confined spaces do not AUTOMATICALLY result in a high quality of life. But they do over time.

No, they don't.

You know what, Johnny, get bent. I've spent enough time arguing about this, and if there's one thing I learned in my life, it's that this online boxing never, never ever manages to change anyone's mind.
You seem like a fine guy, you definitely know things. As I said in my very first reply to you, I'm actually agreeing with everything you've wrote there, save for the japanese stuff, and I can see that I won't change your mind. Well, you definitely won't change mine either. My position is still the same it was:

Ross_R And the production they have will remain as good as the corpos say it should be. Why else do you think their tech lost in quality after the 80's? They didn't stick to make their tech reliable and repairable, because the world moved on for the consumerism, planned obsolescence and cheap plastics. And Japan followed suit like any other capitalist, making their "can-always-be-better" products worse than they were before.

And I think that history is on my side. Japanese products were bad after WWII, and the corpos were fine with that. When corpos decided they can make more money out of better quality, and they have the money for it, they moved for better quality. And now they are cutting costs and make their stuff worse and worse by year, because corpos are saying they got to do it in order to stay competitive. Yes, they are losing their quality. Once again, use the search engine of your choice and read something about "japan manufacturing quality declines". And it makes sense, since they are capitalists.
Even if they are a bit more perfectionstic capitalists doesn't make them perfectionists. And I will maintain that whatever speckle of perfectionism they do have in their culture doesn't come from any special sense of perfection, but from their dogmatic, traditionalistic culture.
You wish to keep jerking off japanese for whatever reason - fine by me, do it, just don't reply to me anymore, will ya? Because I certainly won't reply to you anymore. And, you know, someone's gotta end this, since this went as far off the topic as it possibly could.
Cheers.

sanner

Johnny

I completely disagree, some thing's authenticity has nothing to do with routine or quality. Authenticity is simply honest self expression. it's about the emotion and immersion of the person/s who are producing said thing.

Johnny Inauthentic is another way of saying "low quality." [...] They are low-quality, and have no taste.

The quality of literature in a mother's birthday card to her son isn't particularly great, but that doesn't make the card inauthentic. The picture on the front isn't particularly in fashion, but poor aesthetic tastes doesn't make it inauthentic either. The card isn't authentic because she's written dozens of them over her lifetime, either. A mastered routine doesn't create authenticity.

The card is authentic because its a personal expression of an emotion the Mother is immersed in. The item she produced is an aspect of herself, it's authentic because it is human and serves to express.

Johnny The reason why a barrel is inauthentic is because it does not work in a modern context. It's larping as though we're in the 1800's or something, when.. we're not, and it looks like it was made in a factory. There is no practical use for a barrel sink, and its implementation did not come about organically

Johnny If someone comes up with a rhinoceros beetle vending machine, they will find some way to make it work.

The bug vending machine services no real need, so how is it 'authentic' in the same way the barrel is 'inauthentic'? Judged on this parameter, both are inauthentic. If both are inauthentic, then the 'organic' need something fulfills is not what creates authenticity. The "intellectual ecosystem" of youtube also doesn't fulfill any need, however you also think it was organic and authentic.

The vending machine, or the erstwhile intellectual ecosystem of youtube, are authentic because they are genuine expressions of the self, without alterior motives (such as the monetary incentives of general vending machines or modern youtube).

Johnny I use the term perfected routine to denote a routine that has achieved authenticity. This is a routine that has developed from a lengthy process of trial and error.

In "A Retrospective", he speaks about youtube becoming more 'polished' or refined. By your argument, Youtube must be more authentic than it was before. The videos have been effortfully revised and perfected-- adapted-- to perform as well as possible in it's current ecosystem; by your definition modern Youtube has a perfected routine, and is therefore authentic. Clearly the perfecting of a routine is not what makes something authentic.

Johnny The distinction is what each system is trying to achieve. Capitalism is a system that perfects towards profit; perfectionism is a system that perfects towards quality.

Capitalism, which you call inauthentic and socially deleterious, perfects it's routine toward profit. However, following your dissertation, Capitalism must antithetically also be authentic because it revises a routine in order to perfect. If one can perfect towards different aspects, and some aspects are inauthentic (such as profit), then authenticity does not rely on perfection towards aspects, but on which aspects are perfected.

Johnny racial diversity [....] and mass public works projects are culturally deleterious: they destroy the routines, creating a stressful, alienating, and inauthentic environment.

idk you've just kind of lost the plot. I appreciate the economic critique, but I think you're letting your own prejudice get in the way of your other analysis here. theres no inherent cultural degredation from public works or racial diversity. Your focus on routines has led you to see any interruption in a routine as malignant, however without further outside stimuli-- further change in environment-- how is one meant to "adapt" and therefore become authentic (according to your definition, authenticity comes from adaptation to a context).

TL:DR Overall, theres no accurate scientific way which we can quantify authenticity, it is produced by a deeply emotional and human process. This feels more like thoughtlessly placing cultural phenomena into your personal, rigid, world view based on a percieved importance of routines.

Johnny

Ross_R Perfect means something completely free from faults or defects. The way you put it, I can make a heap of trash and call it perfect, and it will be perfect, since I will have no objections to that.

Yes. Nobody ever uses it in an objective sense. Philosophers only do that to be annoying.

Ross_R Ever heard of japanese houses? Nothing but drywall and paper, because it is economically viable.

No, it's because they heat and cool their homes differently and live with constant Earthquakes. Cost-cutting is only one aspect of this.

Ross_R I guess that's why after WWII the phrase "Made in Japan" pretty much was synonymous to the word "garbage". Those standarts definitely were taken to the final conclusion.

I don't know anything about this so I can't comment.

Ross_R You know what's funny? Japan is actually laughably bad at a thing that doesn't even need any kind of resources but human mind: software. Just punch into your search engine something along the lines of "why japanese software is so bad" and have some free comedy.

Well, Japanese do not like change. That's why Yahoo Japan looks the same as it always has.

Ross_R You know what, Johnny, get bent.

Stop being a bitch.

Ross_R Even if they are a bit more perfectionstic capitalists doesn't make them perfectionists.

They are more perfectionistic THAN other kinds of capitalists. But capitalism itself can never be perfectionism. It's an entirely different system.

Ross_R You wish to keep jerking off japanese for whatever reason

And here we find the true motivation for your rage: "Japan isn't as good as everyone says it is!"

Wait, you're telling me that Japan is a FLAWED society? Oh my god, oh my god, I'm having a panic attack. I never considered such an original and incisive point of view before! Someone help!

ppp

Japan bad, what else is new

Aero

Ross_R
dude chill out

Ross_R

Johnny
Feel better now? Can we move on?

Ross_R

Aero
Calmer than you are.

Aero

Ross_R
Pure ragebait reply. Merry christmas

Ross_R

Aero
I'm orthodox, so it's a bit too early for me, but thanks and merry Christmas to you too : )

Ross_R

Aero
Well, merry Christmas, mate.

Fantasy

Going back to the topic of inauthenticity in videos, specifically on YouTube, I think habit has led to this. I have found myself more and more opening the website out of habit while doing things such as eating. Years ago I would only visit the site when I was linked a video, I rarely ever explored the site. The advent of reccomendations has made my "exploration" effortless and I am definitely more inclined to click on any video to fill my headspace than seek out quality.
This is known by many people both viewers and creators. Thumbnails and titles trick people into clicking on videos regardless of their actual quality. Clickbait has become the norm. Tying back to my exploration, which I never really do, leaving a video playing is simply easier. I believe that my habits are very common among those that use the web today. Recently I have begun to turn away from the site as I am becoming more and more aware of my slop routine. I have tried to watch more anime as I enjoy the medium more even though I am aware it is just as slop filled. Music and simply silence have also filled some of my YouTube void. Eating a meal in silence with only thoughts or with some simple music that also usually leads to thinking is rather enjoyable. I can enjoy the food more or just think about the day and things I have done or need to get done.

The inauthenticity in videos is how YouTube functions, it is impossible to escape unless you use the site as I did in the past. No algorithm recomendations and purely linked content from friends or boards. I also feel that this applies to most algorithm site and modern web usage in general.

On the subject of Japan I feel they are the same as many places in the world. Almost every society will breed perfectionists in fields. But I also believe there is no such thing as perfection and the pursuit of it is ridiculous to strive for. Not only is perfection largely a subjective thing but being impossible to achieve nobody had ever seen what it looks like. A classic example of perfection could be The Bic Cristal pen. The design has not changed in like 80 or so years and to many it cannot be topped. I have used many in my life but recently found a newer cheap pen, the Paper Mate Ink Joy. I feel like the caps are better quality and the feel of the pen, which is triangular, to be more comfortable. This opinion is not widely believed and the Cristal series of pens will remain a "perfect" design among many. But the Ink Joy, to me, is an improvement. With this I am also sure I will eventually find a cheap pen to replace Ink Joy even if right now I could classify them as "perfect". Though I will not make that statement.
Perfection is subjective and impossible to achieve.

Ross_R

Fantasy I have tried to watch more anime as I enjoy the medium more even though I am aware it is just as slop filled.

Pick some good stuff. 1988 Gunbuster, Kino No Tabi, Welcome To The N.H.K., Gundam Build Divers Re:Rise, Goku Midnight Eye, Gunsmith Cats, Redline...
I really prefer movies to my meals though, and... it's an endless field. I watched tons of'em, and I still haven't even touched a lot of classics like Requiem For A Dream or 1957 12 Angry Men.
Anyway, the point is, I think it's a way to go. Swap YouTube with something more cultural and thought provoking ~~and drive yourself mad with movies like 1998 Pi or animations like Serial Experiments Lain~~.

Aero

Fantasy
i use YT as a music player 80% of the time. The other 20% isn't too terrible since I've sculpted my recommendations for the most part. Every now and then it spazzes out, but you just build it back up again. My bigger issue is with the dogass UI and how they keep making it worse. I totally blocked out shorts using ublock origin, but I can't bring back the subscriptions page being sorted by date or anything useful like that 🙁

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