Why is this forum so comfy? How do we make it comfier?

sonoko · 2024-08-04T20:45:06+00:00

The big draw of this forum, for me anyway, is simply that it's comfy. I got to thinking about why, and I think it's just the fact that it has such a small us...

gingermilk

There are almost no threads here on controversial topics (aka /pol/ stuff) and because of the small user base, it is easy to moderate. We used to have some users who are clearly just trolls and Lume has always taken actions quickly. I don't think you can purposefully make a place comfy. If you have to spend effort trying to replicate the comfy atmosphere, then this draining process will just contradict the concept of comfy.

I like this place as how it is right now and selfishly I wish it can stay the way it is in the future.

sonoko

gingermilk I agree. I am no stranger to having /pol/ tier opinions, but the lack of culture war shit on this place is great, can only hope it will stay that way.

Ross_R

gingermilk If you have to spend effort trying to replicate the comfy atmosphere, then this draining process will just contradict the concept of comfy.

Perhaps, but only for those who spend said effort. The end user likely won't even notice anything.
Also, I think a half - or at least a third - of the way this forum is comes from an extremely well-chosen name. I mean, just think yourself: what kind of people would like to join a place named SheepishPatio? IMO, it automatically appeals to timid nerds specifically.
Or at least to people who want to... slow down for a while and appreciate this opportunity for what it is. I know I am no stranger to flame wars myself, but sometimes I just want a calm harbor.

Porter

Ross_R The messaging and such for the forum is definitely a big help. "Come talk about your hobbies with us" is a fairly specific vibe, and the focus on using media like Clannad and relaxing summerwave art in the ads doesn't leave much for rageaholics to latch onto. There aren't too many people who would see a chill forum and then have the attention span required to go set up an account just to angrypost at it.

sonoko Userbase size helps. There's a goldilocks zone where there's enough people to find easy conversation but not so many people that you get the problems that come with anonymity. Kind of the 'everybody knows everybody' effect I guess.

Ross_R

Porter
Offtopic.

Jet! Grind! Radio!
I'm trying to make a graffiti set for that game right now, and let me tell you, uploading images on Dreamcast emulator is one of a kind experience.
The whole procedure is such a jank. Game doesn't support PNG or anything - only JPEGs, but it has an option to mark the outermost color as a transparent one. It doesn't work quite good though, so you cannot really pick a contrast color, since a thin outline will remain visible, so your job is to pick a very specific color that will be different enough for the game to pick up as a separate one from the colors inside the graffiti, and at the same time similar enough to the rest of the graffiti, so the thin remaining outline wouldn't feel out of place.
And it's a JPEG! Don't forget about JPEG articfacts! And did I mention that you only have about 100 kilobytes of space for three images? By the Gods!
And the uploading process I've mentioned on its own is just bonkers. Thing is, you actually gotta upload images in the internet and then download them onto Dreamcast! Man!
I was surprised to find out that Flycast even emulates the built-in browser to begin with, but it does, and it does so with perfection. It loads 40 kilobytes of image like it's 2001 again - I mean, you know, line by line. The image slowly appears part by part. Crazy stuff.
And then the browser doesn't support HTTPS - only HTTP. Luckily, I know a place where I can host an image and get an HTTP address in return.
This thing is bonkers, I'm telling you. Bonkers.

Nah

Porter

You answered it well. The theme of this forum is a first defense as it calms people and let's them take a deep breath.

The smaller population of irate people means less prey for trolls to feed upon.

More importantly, a calmer demographic means we have less topics centered around complaining and more centered around chill discussions. It creates a cycle of less ranting, better moods, and more themes about slice of life, Sonic, bedtime, RPGs, literature, and coffee rooms.

And of course there's good moderation.

As to make it more cozy? There's a lot of discussion about likes/dislikes. I'd say keep the likes, remove dislikes, and hide them from everybody except the user. So if I get a like, only I can see that like. That way the user gets a sense of someone saying "hey, I like your post but don't have the words worthy of posting a reply" but we don't get people seeking social media clout.

yukarihinata

a few factors. a chill head janny. smallish but persistent userbase. topics are all general interests that arent too serious.

but to me the comfy appeal of this forum is that there is no rush to farm attention. there is no rush to post and say something if you have nothing to say. its just a nice place to check up on.

reminds me of the letterbox textboard. which i need to check on. hopefully it still exists.

Baloney Pony

I think the mutual understand we all have for what the site is and what old forum culture was helps to keep the peace. I think forum culture died as the identity that tied you to these forums got swept up in the simplification and distractions of the corporate web. Just as websites and services like discord and facebook were stealing all our attention, video games were releasing less and less with user run servers. When once you'd join a forum because you wanted to engage with the people on your favorite game server more now you were left with a discord server anyone could've set up to play games on servers with no identity. I used to play on a Gmod server where all the CS models were replaced with gangsters and instead of aiming down the sights of your gun you cocked it to the side like a 90s wannabe rapper. They had their own mumble and site I never touched but I knew it existed and their community is remembered by me a decade and a half later.

Now those of us who remember seek to return to that culture with the wisdom of time reminding us that /pol/ conversations could kill the mood of an entire site, that a good admin can clean without power tripping and that interactions like these will be more well remembered a decade from now then whatever garbage you would've posted on the corporate web. We are now wise veterans rebuilding the web in the image we know worked best. ~~Now if we could just find a decent messenger software~~

Ross_R

Baloney Pony
This is a very... satisfying thought, but the neighbouring thread here - How did you get on the internet? - shows that a lot of users got into the internet at the point when forums already started to give way to early social media.
Maybe there were still enough forums in that time period, I'm not quite sure. Or maybe people just strive for this kind of... internet culture intuitively.

sonoko

Ross_R Or maybe people just strive for this kind of... internet culture intuitively
My personal theory is that, post-covid (maybe due to lockdown, maybe things were heading that way anyway, who knows?) the major sites of the internet have all formed one big monoculture. You post screenshots of tweets on 4chan, you use 4chan slang on twitter, reddit and tumblr now espouse the same ideas etc etc. This lack of a sense of identity inevitably drives some users to forums, like this.

TINT

Here is my opinion on how to make this site more comfy: Remove any social media mechanics like thumbs up/down, reactions etc.

sanner

TINT I unfortunately have to agree with you here. its a shame because i think reactions are cute and funny. I'd like to start off by saying i don't think its a bad thing to have a 'like' system such as the one here on Sheepish, i just don't trust users to properly handle these 'like' systems. Even though i don't see the thumb rating and reaction system an issue currently, if this site grows, the rating system could absolutely change or, at worst, destroy the comfy-esque nature that's so appealing about this community.

if the site encourages (whether intentional or not) posts of a certain type that appeal to numerical interaction (such as number of likes or number of reactions) instead of genuine discussion, I'm concerned that the current and/or future users of this site may change the way they post-- whether that be consciously or sub-consciously-- in order to gain more 'points', however that may look.

This might all be incorrect and the site will stay this way for the foreseeable future, but i've seen too many social media sites and communities (many of which i've called a home at one point) devolve into a contest or game to see who can get the highest score instead of what's important; fostering a community and the meaningful interactions surrounding said communities. Even the innocuous Point display here on Sheepish (viewable through the profile screen) could be seen as a 'High Score' and a source of competition, especially because it can be seen by other users and not just yourself. I'm sure Reddit and the effects of it's Karma system on the content and quality of posts will come to mind for many of us.

Remember, we are living in a 'permanent september'. the people who we interact and form communities with online is never guaranteed to stay and therefore the 'communal essence' is never guaranteed. Let's enjoy ourselves while we can and stay comfy.

TL;DR: keeping likes and reactions engenders the 'gamification' of conversation which may lead to the erosion of communities through users competing for a high score instead of focusing on meaningful conversation.

TINT

sanner

Exactly this! Old school forums didn't had this crap and this is what made them better than modern platforms. If this site truly wants to be an alternative to the mainstream corpo sites, there shouldn't be this manipulative gamification "features". I hate those cowards on modern platforms who never contribute to discussions, but only click like/dislike.
This is Reddit tier behaviour and the only way to prevent this, is by disabling these gamification mechanisms.

Colgatto

sanner
I'm upvoting your post

sanner

After doing some reflection and reading Reverie and music liker's individual posts, I'd just like to add clarity on my original post ( link here: sanner ). What was mentioned in my post and in TINT's before seemed to resonate with some people. However, as this conversation has continued i don't feel comfortable leaving the original post as is without adding some further context to the opinions i shared.

I don't think likes are an inherently bad system, and i don't think i made that clear in my original post. Even though many people in this thread-- including me-- critiqued them, that doesn't mean they should be completely disregarded. For example, i frequently read posts on CSIG or General Talk that i don't have time or the knowledge/experience to respond to. The like button is a great way to show support to our peers if we can't continue the conversation. I think showing that we appreciate member's posts is super important, especially in regards to keeping the community comfy. I think a like system is a great way to easily do that.

In regards to keeping the site comfy; I'm just doubting right now if the way this conversation panned out is truly productive for this thread or the site, so I wanted to apologize for furthering a dialogue that seems to have created some negativity on the Forum. All in all, I trust Lume to do what's best for the site, even if some of us may have criticism (valid or not ) regarding the choices. This was more stream of consciousness so if it makes no sense i apologize again.

Late_Settler

TINT

Exactly this! Old school forums didn't had this crap and this is what made them better than modern platforms.

I recall starting to see points or karma systems show up around 2004 or so. Mostly on boards running vBulletin software. It was the most feature rich message board software out there at the time. Anyway these features have been out there since fairly early on.

gingermilk

It seems to me that many modern forums have abandoned the traditional thumbs up/down system and use reactions instead.

I'm not sure why these features are so widespread because it's seems to hinder a lot of discussion. After all it's a lot easier to throw a like at a post than to take the time to articulate why you agree with someone or how you feel about their post. I guess technically a click is considered engagement and if you're an ad driven site then you're looking at that metric as an important thing.

As for the main topic. Smaller community forums are primarily driven by big personalities. As long as that core group has a vested interest in keeping things chill then general discussion should remain as such. Mods can take care of obvious problem posters but the community itself is largely self moderating. My general advice to people who are worried about their niche online hangouts is to make the community what you want it to be and lead by example.

friffri

The problem with other websites is that comments with more likes end up hiding all the rest, and early comments always have the advantage. Unless you're lucky to find a thread that was just posted, you might as well avoid posting on reddit since no one is going to see what you write. That's not an issue with this forum's format though.

An argument that convinces more instead is this: I personally use likes & reactions here as a way of telling someone "hey, I'm not commenting but know you're not shouting into the void". I suspect I'm not alone in this. If I didn't have the "like" button then I would be forced to post more, which is good for the forum's health.

But overall I don't really believe this is an issue right now

Colgatto

friffri
I totally understand the appeal of a like button. There are many times where I find myself agreeing with someone, but having nothing to add but "yes, like he said ☝️", I prefer not to pollute the thread with my message that does not add much of value.
On the other hand, when disagreeing with someone, I expect at least an argument or explanation. Dislike refuse to elaborate leave is really the lowest level of interaction you can get. If you want to get lazy disagreeing with someone, at least give a like to a post that gives a counter-argument, but I don't think the dislike button, in this context, fosters constructive discussions.
I also don't think it's an issue right now, but there's no telling when it might become one, and I'm pretty sure no one would miss this feature anyway.

friffri

Colgatto
Yeah, I agree. I never use the dislike button anywhere and I have no arguments for keeping it

Ross_R

Colgatto Dislike refuse to elaborate leave is really the lowest level of interaction you can get.

If the opinion pisses you off and the only elabortion you can give is "you're a fucking faggot", it's better just to click a dislike, therefore it is better to leave that option rather than to deal with the ocassional bursts of rage and the infighting between users that might follow.
Essentially, dislike is a... mild venting option.

Colgatto

Ross_R
I don't think the option of a dislike button would stop anyone form venting or insulting anyone if they really want. If I had to guess, a better deterrent is that it's against post etiquette (overly antagonistic). Besides, even without dislikes, you can always give an emote reaction to a message. Granted, there ain't "you're a faggot" emote. Maybe there should be at least one "I hate this" kind of reaction available? Maybe not very comfy though.

TINT

Ok now I get it, everybody who defends this social media thumb up/down feature is a conformist sheep(ishpatio) who doesn't know what the correct opinion is and needs confirmation by our community. This is what some people call "comfy", it is a mechanism to establish groupthink. This is the way, how to recognize good posts and bad posts/users. I'm certainly not a free speech absolutist and nobody wants actual free speech. But it makes a difference, when you create a forum and implement the worst elements of social media into it. And here goes all of my karma.

Ross_R

Colgatto I don't think the option of a dislike button would stop anyone form venting or insulting anyone if they really want.

It stopped me more than a couple times alright. There is a user which really, really fucking pisses me off simply by being present here, but so far I've been less or more OK with simply disliking them.
One time I wrote about my... concerns to Lume personally though. We discussed it rather extensively and came to the conclusion that I could go ahead and go, uh... reasonably ballistic, but I still held myself back and simply dropped a dislike. Lume's personal, rather... understanding position helped with that a lot that time.
Without dislikes though? I'd probably be banned by now.

Reveriemoe

I'll declare neutrality on the like issue, but I have used the Doomworld forums for a long time, which added likes around 2018, and although I wouldn't say they directly contributed to a cultural shift (even if looking at older threads you see people talk in a very different way and not just because of neologisms), the site does have a lot of zero-effort threads that only facilitate the process of generating attention, rather than actual discussion - "React to the profile pic above" (not impossible to find on other forums also), "Post the last thing you bought", "What was the most recent movie you saw", but most of these actually predate the addition of likes. As far as I can tell, the reason SheepishPatio is 'comfy' is because its size makes it unattractive to the people who care more about the number at the bottom of their post than the post itself. People who only care about karmawhoring aren't going to stick around on a site where a thread they open might not get a response for 3 months.

music liker

Reveriemoe
Yeah, I completely agree. I don't think that the forum's big enough currently to really warrant caring, and it's a nice way to show appreciation for effortposting. I use the feature fairly often, myself. I am new though, so maybe my thoughts will change as the forum continues to grow.

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