Internet Addiction

z5e

Hello friends :o)
Let's start with a definition.
Addiction: a repetitive action that leaves you worse off in the long term, but "high" for the short term.

What do you think "healthy" Internet use looks like?
How could we define "better off for the long term"?

I think what makes this discussion difficult is defining the "better off for the long term" since that leaks into life philosophy.
But maybe working from the Addiction mindset–that is, seeking some "highs" in the short term–we could define "better off for the long term" as "more naturally high" I suppose.

Motive for the thread: It is said that addiction is the best temporary solution to a larger problem.
That most addicts would cease if they felt capable of finding a sturdier solution.

agoraoptera

z5e
I'd like to also bring up two subcategories of addiction: physiological and behavioural.

Physiological addiction is a more clear-cut matter, in that depriving a user access to this substance actively creates physiological withdrawal that messes up their body and is potentially lethal. Drugs and such fall here. The archetypal addiction.

Behavioural addiction is more of what we're discussing here. Any activity has the potential to be behaviourally addictive, because this one is more about how your brain and habit patterns have been rewritten to accommodate the activity. Removing one from a behaviourally addictive activity does not generate withdrawal symptoms in the same way as the former, but likely will still result in some impaired feeling while the patterns shift to reacclimatise to coping without. I guess in both ways, there are similar mechanisms going on in the brain for withdrawal, but the physiological one involves a far greater direct impact of the substance itself on the brain while the behavioural one is more within the bounds of typical habit-/routine-forming responses to stimuli (which is the whole purpose of the brain's ability to change itself in response to the environment).

Thta was a bit messy. I bring up this distinction because it's commonly said that things like marijuana aren't addictive, but that's usually meant in the physiological sense while I think it's fairly uncontroversial that it can be behaviourally addictive. Likewise, Internet addiction is primarily behaviourally addictive. Habits build up that are difficult to break. Most people aren't addicted like the kid who dies after spending 72 consecutive hours at an Internet cafe, but it's reasonable to say most modern humans are addicted to the Internet nevertheless.

The most insidious part to me is that tendency to automatically open some apps/sites without really thinking about it. Like friffri said, that habit of just cycling through the same set even after you've exhausted the content. I had that with Reddit for awhile, cycling between three subreddits. I managed to kill that habit for a while by not using Reddit entirely, when they shut the third-party apps. That lasted for about a month until my friend passed me an app that worked, but I should probably have stopped fully there. At least overall I still use it less.

I don't think that the widespread occurrence of Internet addiction is necessarily a "temporary solution to a larger problem" (though it can be, of course). I think it's more a combination of how omnipresent the Internet is, how necessary it is for functioning within society, and very imporhantly, how actively the various merchants are trying to sell us stuff. I mean, the whole point of marketing is to find the best hooks into our minds to get us to spend time and money on their product. In this case, the addiction isn't a passive thing where the addict is the only actor. We are constantly being actively lured into the net, and not many have the willpower to resist that sort of ubiquitous suction day after day. It's kind of mad.

Baloney Pony

z5e
Truth of internet addiction is that it's a problem that in our modern world can only be cured with the solving of it's core issue. An alcoholic or meth head can be cured without seeking to solve their underlying problem that drove them to addiction. The necessity of the internet in our lives is too much of a draw for most people to avoid relapsing. When I was a depressed teen I would be addicted to the internet forums I would frequent and when I'd try to leave them I would find myself unable to. I wasn't a depressed teenager because of those forums I was a depressed teenager who coped with those forums. What the modern view of addiction doesn't seem to account for is that we are seeking to cure a symptom of a greater issue in a person. You can take the liquor away from an alcoholic but you're not stopping her boyfriend from beating her and her kids. All you've done is take away the coping still, however helpful that means of coping is.

That all being said I do think that the internet boosts several specific addictions that society has told us is a virtue: being the overly informed new addiction and an addiction I call the "socially starved". Those who want to watch documentaries on topics and loosely know what is going on in the world are fine but we all know that one person who watches 24 hour news and obsesses over every war, every story, every issue going on in the world today. This is what creates the doomscrollers on sites like twitter who rot their brain on the newest thing the news establishment feeds them. The solution to these people is to get them some volunteer work or find out what they're trying to escape addressing in their own life. The "socially starved" are the types you see who constantly scroll through facebook and instagram lamenting their lack of interesting lives as they see their more well adjusted friends having meaningful friendships and going out doing meaningful activities. This has often be attributed to a lens of social media making people's lives seem fake and vane but I have another theory to better explain these types. I believe these "socially starved" individuals are actually as uninteresting as their anxieties have lead them to believe and they are incapable of the kind of meaningful friendships others have. We've all had that coworker, family member or former classmate who were so utterly uninteresting as a person that we'd never seek to try and form a meaningful attachment to them. I think these people seek out the false sense of community they're starved of through sites like facebook and then feel crushed when they're never invited out to the club with their so called friends. I'm not sure what the solution is to this type of internet addiction but they can start by watching another show that isn't the Office.

Left4

z5e
Well, if you gain from it/develop a hobby with it (that isn't primarily consumption) then it isn't an addiction. I am addicted to 4chan and I am not addicted to writing stories. But both have recently taken up about the same amount of time.

Ross_R

In my eyes, one thing is for sure: constant connection is "unhealthy". Off with smartphones. Do not take it with you. Switch for an old phone, or an old-style phone, which simply does not support the smartphone functions. Try to keep your connection to the home area.

friffri

It is really hard to overcome an internet addiction nowadays, considering how you're pretty much forced to interact with the internet if you want to live in our society.

Sometimes I open my usual 3 sites one after the other, and once I'm done with the last I re-open the first and repeat the cycle. No new contents, but once I realize what I'm doing I've already wasted an hour of my life.
So, I'd say healthy internet use means not doing THAT.

z5e

Hello again friends :o)

So, cycling through the same sites even after viewing them is certainly unhealthy, a good starting point.
Often unconscious.

Interesting to note about site-cycles is the usefulness extracted.
That, more often than not, there's a differential between perceived usefulness versus actuality.

gingermilk because addiction is their only source of happiness.

It is rare to come across those who can enjoy doing nothing.
Where it's difficult to be left alone with ones thoughts.
Which leads into:

agoraoptera Drowning the conscious ego with heavy stimuli, is what I think of it as.

What makes the Internet especially insidious is how it reinforces the conscious ego.
Never before in recorded history have people been able to string together their stories of self. To carry it around for display and reminder.
Timelines with photos and stray thoughts as footnotes all congealing into a sludge mannequin that doesn't exist– e.g. what "you" were when you were "4 years old" isn't certainly who "you" are today.

Recently I've read that the Internet is only for psychopaths.
The reasoning was how the Internet is mostly exploiting the naive and, as noted above:

agoraoptera how actively the various merchants are trying to sell us stuff.

Sometimes the "stuff" is more ethereal in nature.
It's uncomfortable to think about, but there are many forces incidentally "programming" one another for desired outcomes.
The level of psychological "warfare" extends beyond selling: with enough capital one may orchestrate movements and outcry.
The Internet is for psychopaths because the Internet is a weapon just as anything else is, and whatever warmth one wants to find online are but shimmers toward more productive ends.

Shimmers since if you hope to construct any reasonable long-term beneficial outcomes for yourself and for others, you'll want to break out of the "dopamine-complex" (i.e. videogames, movies, media, consumption) and give something tangible of value.
You could also just provide for the dopamine-complex and I guess there isn't anything necessarily wrong about it since people demand it :o)

Of course solution is staring anyone in the face: leave and go build something. Take a break.
Can't see any arguments against it.

I guess the main motive behind this thread was:

friffri how you're pretty much forced to interact with the internet if you want to live in our society.

The Internet is so pervasive and securing our ectoplasmic thought that "real life" isn't real anymore either.
This is exacerbated in most "Western" countries, because there is not much more to do in real life either unless you want to start farming.
There are so many underlying assumptions with how things are ran today, cars as expedients toward empty towns.
Furthermore, the Internet obfuscates and blurs the "our" in the above quote.

Not to imply (and I'm sure many reading this could agree) that I want others around 24/7 and "just hang out" or whatever else.
The idea here is that relationships are satisfying insofar that you can provide something valuable and you get something valuable in return. Working toward objectives. Your dreams!
Which–if you evict the "dopamine-complex" out of the equation–becomes difficult if not impossible if you're still plugged into the system which provides mostly everything for you except for alienation :o)
There's something melancholic about being invited to "go out" since it's just more "dopamine-complex" stuff. I would go along with it if going to the movies, mall, food made me feel good, but it doesn't. It is hollow and feels weird after it ends.
Avoiding it all and not caring about alienation is a valid response if you want to embrace being the sovereign individual.

I guess my main thesis is that the Lifeblood of Community is Economy, and "Economy" would be defined in the most general/obvious terms: "exchanging value with one another" which, if you really sit back and think about it, is extremely hard both in real life and online.
Only corporations can fulfill those roles nowadays, not your neighbors.
The infrastructure isn't there, the definition of "we" is elusive, and the roadblocks to get there are quite high.
This is exacerbated by bad-faith actors and the witchhunts that make up online.
People become unpredictable, and there are consequences for who you let into your domain.

More often than not, the winning move is to not play 😉

In a brighter spin on things, we live in extraordinarily interesting times. I imagine previous village life to be very suffocating.
Deep down, and I'm sure some would agree, it's quite satisfying not having to "answer" to anyone or anything like that.
I guess the main "grievance" here, if there was one, was just gesturing toward the difficulties in staying satisfied for the long term, not being swallowed by the machine 🙂

gingermilk

People can be said to be addicted to the Internet when they develop anxiety when being disconnected imo. The constant stimulation offered by infinite information flow, short term satisfaction offered by algorithm recommended content, affirmation of self validity offered by social media interactions, and affordable escapism offered by doom scrolling is what makes Internet addiction so easy to get. I remember reading somewhere that in order to get out of this vicious cycle, one has to learn how to enjoy boredom. Instead of finding a quick fix for boredom by browsing the Internet aimlessly, people need to find healthier ways to spend time alone with themselves, focusing on the present, and stop worrying about being left behind in the fast-paced society we live in today.

We have a generation dominated by atomized and isolated individuals who stay connected because they are afraid of being bored and lonely, two fundamental elements of the human life. The situation we are in right now is just steadily going downhill, especially after the pandemic.

agoraoptera

gingermilk one has to learn how to enjoy boredom

Do you think it 'counts' as learning to enjoy boredom if you turn to something like reading books? Or would it only count as being able to enjoy the empty space between activities entirely?

Totally agreed on the fear of being bored and lonely part, that's how influencers became such a big thing, and every new social media app refines the ease of which that icepick slides into your brain. And yeah, I think the pandemic fucked up a lot of people. I remember in the first year, I got restless specifically because I wanted to eat at certain restaurants, but others were losing their minds because they needed to see other people. I laughed back then, but it really was quite a psychological shock for most. The even greater shift to Internet-everything (Zoom, work from home, and such) has probably made all this even worse. I seriously can't imagine how bad it is for those who went through puberty in those years, it must have been awful.

I wonder whether Internet addiction will have accompanying addictions like alcohol or drug addictions. I think the circumstances that has led to Internet addiction probably creates enough damage in your overall psyche to open you wide open for a lot of other nastiness. I really hope we can somehow make a push towards a 'healthier' society, but when everything around us is trying to exploit those reward pathways and base urges, it seems really unlikely...

yukarihinata

gingermilk completely agree. based take. I will add that most people could do well to learn a hobby that doesn't provide instant gratification and dopamine hit. Frustration is a necessary spice of life that we need to keep us from being dopamine junkies.

It is actually okay to not have your boredom completely satisfied. If I could just write the perfect song or play piano perfectly, I would have no reason to keep trying.

gingermilk

agoraoptera Do you think it 'counts' as learning to enjoy boredom if you turn to something like reading books? Or would it only count as being able to enjoy the empty space between activities entirely?

Maybe I should find a better word to replace "enjoy", since my point is just that people need to view boredom not as an absolute negative that should be feared and avoided. Those empty spaces can be filled by productive activities or just by being surrounded by your own thoughts. I probably sound like a boomer rn but it seems like people do not know how to think for pure enjoyment anymore and prefer silencing their brain cells unless there is an external force.

agoraoptera I seriously can't imagine how bad it is for those who went through puberty in those years, it must have been awful.

That was me and it was a weird time. I remember having to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours because of Zoom classes and even after that, I was still glued to the screen to play games, browse the internet, read ebooks, etc. I developed back pain but it is definitely a miracle that I still have good eyesight lol

agoraoptera I wonder whether Internet addiction will have accompanying addictions like alcohol or drug addictions.

I can't speak for alcohol, but there are lots of Internet circles of those, usually teens, who are terminally online and trip on drugs daily. People get addicted to Internet, drugs, and alcohol as a form of escapism. It is hard for some of them to develop a lifestyle that is considered healthy for people who have, or even just potentially have a fulfilling life, because addiction is their only source of happiness. But yeah, we are constantly being pushed to make unhealthy choices in the modern days.

Ross_R

agoraoptera but others were losing their minds because they needed to see other people. I laughed back then, but it really was quite a psychological shock for most.

Man. I have about half a dozen IRL friends, and even that is too much for me. Sometimes I wish people would've left me alone for a week or two. I quite literally can't understand people who would've lost their mind about not seeing other people. It's baffling how different this whole... basic layer of thoughts can be.

Overall, I wonder how hard I am connected. I do not think I'm anyhow terminally online, but at some points I start to afraid that maybe I am. Whether or not it is true, I think this fear is a good think, which will help me to remove some or some more of internet from my life.

gingermilk People get addicted to Internet, drugs, and alcohol as a form of escapism.

I kind of agree with this thought. Thing is, I'm quite big on escapism and I do not consider it anyhow bad, but I've never saw the WWW as a legitimate venue for that. I mean... I dunno, I just do not see it, I have no idea how Internet might help you escaping the world and the problems. My methods are my fantasy and generous amounts of works of art - movies, music, comics, whatever. I do enjoy an ocassional drink though - alcohol does help to soothe the pain. And there are some drugs out there that I would love to try, if even out of pure curiosity. But Internet as method for the escapism sounds kinda weird for me.

Though, as I've mentioned above, I just do not understand some people, and this might be another difference in that very basic layer of thoughts.

agoraoptera

gingermilk
Yeah, being unable to bear the murmuring of your own neurons is definitely getting exacerbated by the constant use of entertainment (whatever the form) to fill up that 'dead air'. And the more you feel the need to fill that air, the more your ability to cope with it worsens, so it's a pretty bad loop. It spooks me.

gingermilk I remember having to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours because of Zoom classes and even after that, I was still glued to the screen to play games, browse the internet, read ebooks, etc.

That's rough, though it sounds like you got through relatively okay. (Y) How are you and your classmates coping, if you don't mind me asking? Have IRL relationships become more stilted? Between the heavy usage of Zoom and the prevalence of face masks, the human face was 'distanced' pretty hard for most during that period. I know there's preliminary research on that effect on babies and preschoolers - and it's not looking good - but I wonder if you feel that that's affected you and yours?

Ross_R
I get what you mean. You know how Dunbar's Number (number of stable personal relationships a human is theoretically able to sustain) is supposed to be 150? I always found that hard to believe. Excluding family and coworkers, I generally only keep in contact with 10 or so people on a regular basis.
Though admittedly there are times when being alone with my own thoughts gets suffocating.

Ross_R But Internet as method for the escapism sounds kinda weird for me.

The way I see it, it's in the form of "with entertainment filling me, I can turn off my mind and shut my SELF away" and it's escapism in that sense, not the usual escapism of imagining yourself in a fantasy world for example. Maybe escapism is not the best word, though it could be argued that both serve similar functions of 'taking away the awareness of being (ish)'. Drowning the conscious ego with heavy stimuli, is what I think of it as. Makes me think of how we try to achieve the 'flow' state, which sort of also involves letting the conscious ego fade away until all that's left is the task at hand, and in the 'flow' state things just seem to move well. There's probably something in that parallel there, maybe something about stifling the consciousness versus letting the consciousness erase itself...

yukarihinata
Good point about frustration. It's a mechanism that pushes us further out of complacency and stagnation. I wonder what neurological mechanism frustration runs on? It certainly does seem like it would be a counterbalancing tool in our reward circuits. A very brief search tells me that it's associated with the amygdala and the periaqueductual gray, which are associated with pain, anger and threatening stimuli. But there doesn't seem to be a particular chemical that it's tied to.

Maybe there's something to be found in putting ourselves through intentionally frustrating exercises. A little like meditation, but meant to elicit frustration as the purpose, rather than as a by-product of failing to achieve something.

gingermilk

agoraoptera That's rough, though it sounds like you got through relatively okay. (Y) How are you and your classmates coping, if you don't mind me asking? Have IRL relationships become more stilted? Between the heavy usage of Zoom and the prevalence of face masks, the human face was 'distanced' pretty hard for most during that period. I know there's preliminary research on that effect on babies and preschoolers - and it's not looking good - but I wonder if you feel that that's affected you and yours?

It varies from person to person. I have always been an introverted shut-in, so my life style did not alter too much other than not having to be physically present at school. It is less fortunate for those who have a more outgoing personality or have to deal with an abusive household, so I do know some people whose mental state went spirally downhill during the pandemic.

Ross_R

agoraoptera I generally only keep in contact with 10 or so people on a regular basis.
Though admittedly there are times when being alone with my own thoughts gets suffocating.

Yep, that's about the number for me as well.
And of course it gets lonely on ocassion. And, then again, too crowded on ocassion. It's all about those fine lines that shouldn't be crossed. I do not even completely sure what it depends on: maybe it's the mood, maybe it's the time between human intreraction, maybe it's the Moon that crosses into the phase of Jupiter. but that's just a fact: despite being a loner, sometimes I crave for company. And I'm pretty sure that even the most social people need a "me time" every now and then/

agoraoptera The way I see it, it's in the form of "with entertainment filling me, I can turn off my mind and shut my SELF away" and it's escapism in that sense, not the usual escapism of imagining yourself in a fantasy world for example. Maybe escapism is not the best word, though it could be argued that both serve similar functions of 'taking away the awareness of being (ish)'.

Yes, why not. I've never thought about it, but there might as well be different flavors of escapism. Still, even in this way it kind of weird, because as far as I go, I'm just myself in the web. For the largest part of it, at least. Definitely not crafting any internet personas or whatever.
It does explain the behavious of some other people splendidly though.

agoraoptera

z5e What makes the Internet especially insidious is how it reinforces the conscious ego.

Oh, yeah that's true, that's the other part of social media, the whole displaying your whole life out there and that constant focus on presenting your Self out there. It preys on a part of our self-image processes that is probably narcissism-engendering.

z5e There's something melancholic about being invited to "go out" since it's just more "dopamine-complex" stuff. I would go along with it if going to the movies, mall, food made me feel good, but it doesn't. It is hollow and feels weird after it ends.

For me at least, going out for a meal is satisfying as long as it's hanging out with people I actually care about. The meal is usually not as important as the company, though certainly good food and good company make for an excellent evening. I have a couple of friends whom I meet with about once or twice a month, we usually stay in daily contact via a chatgroup. Meeting with them for any activity (usually dinner) is always a joy.

z5e I guess my main thesis is that the Lifeblood of Community is Economy, and "Economy" would be defined in the most general/obvious terms: "exchanging value with one another" which, if you really sit back and think about it, is extremely hard both in real life and online.
Only corporations can fulfill those roles nowadays, not your neighbors.

I see what you mean. We don't acquire goods and services from friends very much, these are all needs fulfilled by impersonal companies. Which is why striking up relationships with the local [seller of whatever goods] is an interesting part of community. But by and large, the main thing we trade with our friends is time, company and our minds. And it can get hard to 'justify' spending time when there's so many other things clawing for your attention and promising so much more dopamine. The allure of the quick and easy fix.
We have to really understand what we value to be able to not fall into these traps, and that's no mean feat either.

kurisu Now I don't browse when I'm outside, like at all.

Congratulations, you've shown a great deal of discipline and have overcome the hardest initial hurdle. That's something to be proud of.
It's good to want to fill out your life, but just for the sake of balancing out, don't fret overmuch. You're still 20, and you really do have your whole life ahead of you. Of course it's good to want to change, but don't become haunted by the spectre of it, is all.
You're right though, I think most if not all of us are addicted even if it doesn't feel like it.

kurisu Is this the end of the computer era? Will phones follow us everywhere from now on? Are we expected to be even more connected than we are?

My personal suspicion is that yes, we're never getting rid of smartphones. I don't think it'll be the end of the computer era exactly, PCs are just too useful, but smartphones have already become so integral to daily life that it's difficult to imagine getting away from it (unless they invent something else even more intrusive).
But will we be more connected? I think even now there are more and more people trying to break themselves out of the web of connections. A small number still, but I think it will not be too difficult to imagine that becoming more popular. Probably never the dominant force, except only as a background "yeah I should browse less" thought. Like the perennial thought floating about of "I should cut down sugar" or "I should work out more". Vague "shoulds" that don't lead to much actual change.
The above thought started out more positive in my head...

kurisu

I'm an internet addict, I've been one ever since I was a kid, since the day I found it. Ramble incoming.

For the sake of context, I'm 20 years old, there was no internet at home until I was about 8 years old, and it was still extremely slow. When I was a kid, I was a tech addict, I loved the aesthetics of the beautiful home and portable media players sold at my local Sony store, I loved technology, I loved (non smart) phones... It was just the thing I was into.

When we got internet installed on our home, I would visit club penguin and play very often, almost every afternoon after school. I also played the wii and the DS a lot, so I was no stranger to tech. Fast forward to my mid teens, and I got into a networking and software school. Fast forward to the start of 2023, and I noticed that... I've been wasting my life on the net! I have friends, sure. Good friends. I'm not extremely bored but... What am I even doing?

All I do is come back home, stay on the computer, and sleep.

I also used to scroll through tiktok, or instagram, or reddit, or whatever, ALL THE TIME. At least I got some basic photoshop skills, video editing skills, and some more shitty creative skills out of exploring in my teen years, but if it wasn't for them, I'd be a huge pile of nothing!

I'm trying to change my ways now. I got rid of tiktok, best decision ever. I restricted my instagram time strictly, and stopped depending on my phone for easy dopamine. Now I don't browse when I'm outside, like at all. My phone is literally used for whatsapp, phone calls, the calendar, email and music/podcasts. As for my online activity on the computer, I prefer smaller forums or groups (like this one!) than huge centralized social media. I don't feel as exposed here, I'd rather have a small group that I trust than a stage where either no one or the whole world will be listening, just to bring the hate on.

As I mentioned in another thread a while ago, last summer possibly (haven't been active since then), I've been "trying to learn an instrument". I'll accept defeat, I haven't been progressing a lot with my guitar, nor with my piano. Though I've been mostly occupied with engineering maths, I really should start changing my ways again.

I'm trying to go from internet addict to someone who only uses it at home, on the computer, as it should be. And I want to spend my 20s wisely, with a proper routine (uni, exercise, skills, relationships...).

Many people don't recognize it, but we all are internet addicts, some more than others. Some stay on the "clear" side. Mainstream apps, like tiktok and facebook. Some others dig into the rabbit hole, enter twitter, reddit, 4chan... And we all spend so many hours here. It's fucked up. Everyone's seeking their free dose of dopamine, and I'm afraid that I'm seeing this trend growing in the next generation, where they're practically born with youtube shorts/tiktok/ig reels and a device to watch them on.

Is this the end of the computer era? Will phones follow us everywhere from now on? Are we expected to be even more connected than we are? I don't want to live like that, I feel like an old man saying it.

I used to be the kid that said "nah, I'm not addicted" when they told me that I was. I was incredibly wrong. I have so many regrets, both in my online activity and usage. I was addicted, I am addicted, and I don't want it to be this way. I used to be soulless. My hobbies? didn't have any, but liked tech. What the fuck is wrong with me? Who even am I anymore?

What does the future hold for all of us? Is there any hope for someone who wants to stop living online? Guess I'll eventually find out. I just need to take care of myself, and try harder.

Don't be like me, y'all. It's not too late to change (y)our ways.

MrBanana

Once these Mixed Reality headsets like the Quest and the Apple Vision are more mature in their future iterations I think our collective internet addiction will only get worse. The brain adapts very quickly to its surroundings and the internet and social media being in "reality" will become a necessary comfort even more than it is now.

Even still I would like to try it. It will have some benefits in being a more realistic interaction with people than pure voice or text but less than real life.
I hope it doesn't lead to further poor conditions in our lives with regard to our towns, people and culture.

Taka

MrBanana I'm never buying into this neuralink and virtual reality shit, man.

I may be an internet-addicted loser, but I'm not that type of internet-addicted loser

MrBanana

Taka I know lots of people who would agree. Once more services and people use them though a lot of said people would whittle down and get something along those lines.
Hopefully the collective we can void becoming that type of internet-addicted loser.

Sheepishpatio.net is a forum running on the Flarum software, use of the forum is free. Please enjoy your time.

Friends of the site Here

If you are interested in creating imagery for the site, the resource page is Here