Thoughts on the current state of the internet

Theory_of_Everything

A question spurred by various discussions that I have had on other places about the internet recently:

What are your thoughts on the current state of the internet?
What made it good? What made it bad?
Is it doomed to fail? Or is it thriving as we speak?

Its been around for awhile, but at least from my point of view, it has gotten much bigger in recent times. Thus the sentiment of those who have been using it longer has been generally negative, as opposed to the new users who say its great. Everyone seems to have some kind of opinion on what makes or breaks the internet and its appeal, ranging from the current squabbles on popular sites, the downfall of old sites that were once great, to the lack of culture and aesthetic of the older internet.

A vocal minority say that the internet was doomed early on and that the creation of popular social media sites like YouTube, Facebook, and MySpace killed of any charm that it had. Others say that recent trends with the newer platforms have led to its demise. Some say that after the 2000's is when the internet became unredeemable rubbish.

I'm not sure what to really make of it personally. I have had a fairly hands-off experience with the internet, mostly passively using it for other work and school related things rather than leisure.

agoraoptera

Theory_of_Everything Its been around for awhile, but at least from my point of view, it has gotten much bigger in recent times.

Bigger but smaller, I'd say. Everything used to be scattered and very anarchic, with everyone and their mum making their own sites for their niche little things. But over time, things got more centralised and more sanitised, which is my gripe with the Internet. Everything is so damn corporate-focused. Yes, searching up technical info is a lot more efficient and streamlined. Google has gotten exceedingly good at having most desired results on the first page of search. But pages 3 and beyond don't really exist anymore, and it lies to you about its millions of results. Frequently, it cuts off around page 6 or 7.

Sterile is the word. I'd go on more, but I'm phoneposting. I don't think the current state of the Internet can be undone.

Lumeinshin

I can probably agree with a bit of all of them.
Ease of access has meant that the quality of online content goes down, as younger kids and normalfags could access the internet and post utter nonsense or ask stupid questions. That applies to all. I think that its gotten even worse as the phone generation has gotten into the net, as they didnt at least have to deal with some Windows issues or updating software outside their black box experiences on iPhone, Android or any other store based experiences.
The sites themselves have definitely suffered a lot due to mass migrations to exclusively a few sites.
It is hard to tell however whether lots of the users online these days would have used such sites with more niches like say newgrounds, or whether they would just do something else entirely, partially due to a lack of skill their end that is undeveloped, or even just the means (phones etc). I havent used newgrounds on mobile so i'm unsure how that experience is.

A lot of sites these days try to it all, and even discord has started becoming like that. What was originally just a decent group chat with the boys has become a reddit replacement, a github downloads replacement in some cases and other such. It is definitely where I see the net as worse these days. Especially since its not even open access.

Since I run this site and want it to succeed, get more popular and all that jazz. I do have to think about what kind of shape I want it to take and how it would impact the web. (im sure thats really gay to read). The site is broad but I think the general theme of 'hobbies' does at least let it have its limits. I did debate some kind of drama section because I do find a lot of that stuff interesting, but I know that can change a userbase when the perspective is changed like that. I think thats how we've managed to avoid some heated arguments so far. Same kinda with chat, I want us to have some more features for users to talk to eachother outside of threads, but I am becoming less warm on the idea of having some sophisticated chat system here. I may instead try to make it easier to get an XMPP account from the site or give users tools in that regard. I'm happy to facilitate friendships and such but I think if we can in some way get people using the cool tech we have already for their specific purposes I think it'll be easier in the long term and better for the internet as a whole.

WebRings are a neat concept, Image boards use them best I think since its functionally like an agreed fediverse. For this site I think maybe a page with 'friends of the forum' listed would be more fitting as we use accounts. Maybe if more users used the blogging feature the site would fit better into a webring.
We as users and as admins have the options to make the web better, it is just about using them and creating our own circles where the desires and habits match.

agoraoptera

Lumeinshin

I may instead try to make it easier to get an XMPP account from the site or give users tools in that regard. I'm happy to facilitate friendships and such but I think if we can in some way get people using the cool tech we have already for their specific purposes

I'm not a very tech-savvy person. Do you mind explaining what an XMPP account would be useful for, and what sort of tools do you mean by "cool tech... for specific purposes"?

I do have to think about what kind of shape I want it to take and how it would impact the web. (im sure thats really gay to read)

fuck you, don't self-deprecate, it's cool that you've come up with all this stuff, and having the will and vision to make something of your own like this forum is great. Embrace your goals and desires! \o/

Theory_of_Everything

Lumeinshin

The sites themselves have definitely suffered a lot due to mass migrations to exclusively a few sites.
The more I do look into internet history, the more I am led to believe that having massive groups of people on 1 place is never a good idea. Let alone that most of these companies hosting these massive platforms have bills to pay. Most of that is compensated for by advertisement and trying to get that in front of the user.

And in general, sites for wide audience or for multiple communities never really have that level of separation from each other, they end up becoming one amalgamation of the same thing.

ress

Lumeinshin
Hasty nihilism should never be use a metric your system of quality is subjective not objective.
A phone by the standards of today is still a cellular computer with the goal of communication in mind.

Porter

I think one of the big issues for the modern internet is that it's dominated by corporate sites, and those sites and site layouts are optimized for corporate interests, not necessarily usability. Google spends big money researching which shade of blue leads to higher click through rates, the layout of the Youtube page is organized to get you to watch more videos and generate more screen time, and every element on it is placed with purpose. They incentivize content that will keep you in your seat, clicking through to more and more videos so they can get you more ads, rather than content that's actually useful or beneficial.

None of this is necessarily malicious, but fact is that Google, Amazon, and the other tech giants have incentives to put their claws in you and do their best to monopolize your time and data. This has lead to web design elements that kind of remind me of casinos; things designed to keep you in the loop and looking at the page. Services like Tik Tok or YouTube Shorts function on a very similar mechanism to gambling which makes it easy to sit and doomscroll on them, which means the company will want to push them because the more time you sit there doomscrolling is more data and more ad time. It's sort of a vicious cycle.

Internet is cool. I like it. I like being able to pal around with my friends that live halfway across the country. But poking around the modern internet is a bit like trying to order a coffee and having to actively fight the clerk to get a cup of plain, black coffee instead of a 1200 calorie monstrosity with more sugar than water in it.

cat_beepo

mechap

Every community goes through a cycle of 6 stages, but this cycle is different from any other cycles, because this one does have an end.

At the hobby stage, it's just a hobby. All members of the community contribute out of their love for the activity and the desire to continually improve, and as such, there is a shared passion among the participants where consumers double up as producers. There is no exception to the pattern that every prosperous community reaches a growth plateau at this stage.
At the attention stage, contributors decide it's time to take their hobby to a "wider audience" and promote it everywhere. This is the point at which newcomers enter the hobby. The newcomers will likely complain about the difficulty and request a lower level of complexity. At the same time, they demonstrate no desire to contribute and are merely consumers of the hobby.
In the backstab stage, the contributors are kicked out of their own community, the newcomers take over and tell the original contributors that they're no longer welcome. This stage occurs once the barrier to entry has been lowered all the way down. This is also the stage at which censorship begins. Examples include Void Linux, Tor and Pleroma. Some communities will decide to go underground to continue their hobbies at the hobby stage, with no plans to go further, such as western comics with Comicsgate, Rebase/Soapbox as a fork of Pleroma, and OpenBSD as a fork of NetBSD.
In the business phase, it's no longer about the passion, it's about the money. Contributors are now considered employees. For the original contributors, this is the last chance to break away and return to the hobby stage, if done early. Meanwhile, censorship is rampant, and becomes more and more dependent on the current hate of the investors. Examples include Youtube, much of the indie games industry, Ubuntu and Manjaro.
During the outrage stage, the business becomes greedy and tries to appeal to the general public to maximise their profit potential. Ironically, this approach attracts people who will only join to cause trouble. While the general public have already isolated the enthusiasts, these hate groups will expel both the public and current employees during the process. At this stage, the 'community' has reached a point of no return whereby anyone who has been removed during the previous stages or has left, will not come back as they have already formed a new group separately or found something else that they prefer now. There may be some individuals among the non-enthusiasts who will attempt to remain outside until they are exhausted, but others have already done so and are seeking new things to appreciate. It is unlikely that they will gain entry to the geeky hobbyist communities now that the geeks are aware of how to protect their replacement communities.
Meanwhile, censorship is becoming increasingly rampant, beyond control even, and it is beginning to undermine itself. Some examples include the AAA game industry, microblogging, the clearnet, and Comiket. Japanese animation is considered an endangered species because it balances between the hobby, controversy, and outrage stages, depending on the franchise.
During the collapse stage, it is the endgame, and the community has now disbanded. No one is willing to associate with it anymore, potentially causing it to be forgotten over time. For instance, examples of this include MySpace, Dreamcast, Hollywood, Western comics, and Skype.

I think we are now at stage 5.

Atom

In my humble opinion, I think all the chaos we're in was unavoidable from the start. From its inception, it was clear that the web was going to have a lot of people using it in near time, which would be now. People whose views on the internet may not align with those using it prior to them.
Ultimately, the best solution to this issue is finding smaller and more like-minded communities, or become a creator yourself and build your own community.

mechap In the backstab stage, the contributors are kicked out of their own community, the newcomers take over and tell the original contributors that they're no longer welcome. This stage occurs once the barrier to entry has been lowered all the way down. This is also the stage at which censorship begins. Examples include Void Linux, Tor and Pleroma. Some communities will decide to go underground to continue their hobbies at the hobby stage, with no plans to go further, such as western comics with Comicsgate, Rebase/Soapbox as a fork of Pleroma, and OpenBSD as a fork of NetBSD.

What happened with the SCP community at this stage was particularly egregious. After a formal site was established, the admins of said site basically disavowed the /x/ anons that laid the ground word for their entire fandom for being too "problematic". Now the whole thing is run by a bunch of pansies who'll get their panties in a twist when you ask them what 'originul gay bean uwu oc DONUT STEAL!!' has to do with horror and SCP as a whole.
It's honestly really sad to see this type of stuff happen when it does.

emanickn

Atom
Any form of controversy shall and will harm the userbase and as such preventive measures were taken.
gingermilk
The term ownership implies of dominance as in who really owns it. Who owns the world? Current answer would be America since it power rank supersedes all others.
All forms of property regardless of its value are finite you can not change this.

gingermilk

The Internet is going towards the opposite direction of its original goal, an anarchic space that facilitates communication regardless of any restraints with a primary focus on interaction rather than consumption. With the rise of centralization, manipulation of algorithms, and addictive designs initiated by tech companies, the Internet has transformed itself from a connected web of self governed communities to isolated bubbles of echo chambers from an individual's perspective. We started to adopt the system of producers and consumers as Internet expanded from a niche project enjoyed by a handful of hobbyists to a commercial platform controlled by businesses.

I remember sitting in a class and the teacher asked who do we think owns the internet, and someone genuinely answered google while others agree. The original concept of Internet becomes entirely foreign once we are accustomed to perceiving it as a private property owned by tech companies and a commodity its users have to rent, especially to the younger generation who can't live without all those subscription and cloud based services that can be taken away any time.

Atom

emanickn Any form of controversy shall and will harm the userbase and as such preventive measures were taken.

There was no controversy to be had until a small handful of powerful and vocal people insisted there was. Regardless, it's pretty disrespectful to attempt to remove a creator/creators from their work and claim it for yourself, even if you don't like them. They did create the thing you like after all.
A community that is okay with kicking out core founders or oldies in their group because a newbie does not like them is practically the turning point from when a community goes from being fun to corrupt.

gingermilk

emanickn Who owns the world? Current answer would be America

I hope you were not serious by saying that. Power and dominance does not equal to ownership since when you own an object, you have complete control over it. Neither America or any big tech companies are able to claim full sovereignty over the sphere they are influential in, otherwise the concept of a "country" becomes absurd and no alternatives for Google would even exist.

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